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chromatic (983)

chromatic
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http://wgz.org/chromatic/

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Thursday April 03, 2008
07:59 PM

Perl 6 Design Minutes for 02 April 2008

[ #36053 ]

The Perl 6 design team met by phone on 02 April 2008. Larry, Allison, Patrick, Jerry, Will, Jesse, Nicholas, and chromatic attended.

Larry:

  • things are very busy
  • working on a very interesting problem at work that's eating my brain
  • sneaked in a few e-mails and synopsis changes
  • not much work on the STD parser, just a few nips and tucks
  • nothing earth-shaking, mostly just tune-ups in response to John M. Dlugosz and others

Patrick:

  • things are going well
  • wrote a draft of the second report for the Mozilla Foundation grant
  • will post it soon, perhaps tonight
  • there has been a ton going on
  • this'll be the first in a series of postings to catch up on what's happened the last three months
  • closed a few old tickets related to a deprecated feature
  • everything that uses PGE is on the new syntax
  • reviewed the PCT tutorial and sent kjs some comments and clarifications
  • halfway through that
  • the changes are all pretty minor
  • the tutorial pointed out some places where PCT needs to evolve, and I'm working on that
  • getting ready for some heavier Rakudo hacking and reviewing the test suite

Allison:

  • finished the main edits to the Strings PDD
  • still adding the API reference
  • need to ask Simon and Larry to review it
  • this is the last PDD in one of the milestones
  • working on the next milestone schedule, prioritizing those
  • also breaking up tasks for the concurrency milestone

Jerry:

  • doing a lot of meta-work, not a lot of work
  • four Parrot proposals and one Perl 6 proposal in GSoC
  • maybe a few more on the way
  • preparing for conference season, especially the Parrot and Perl 6 workshop at YAPC::NA
  • hope to catch up with Allison while she's in town
  • though we'll probably do more meta work

Will:

  • lots of Parrot stuff
  • cleaning up build dependencies
  • removing some long-deprecated features
  • hope to merge back our branch after the next release
  • keeping on track with RT
  • talked to kjs about shoehorning his tutorial into a compiler tools PDD
  • it's a milestone, and one of the last ones
  • Allison's looking after the remaining PDDs which aren't part of the milestones

c:

  • working with Coke to remove deprecated features
  • fixing a few segfaults and crashes, going through open tickets for ideas
  • working with a few new contributors on IRC

Jerry:

  • they came from Jim Keenan's visit to Toronto
  • he's preparing for the workshop at YAPC::NA
  • found people with various untested platforms

c:

  • that's been very helpful
  • adding a few new features
  • talked with Mitchell about his plans for a while yesterday

Jesse:

  • Patrick and Jerry, what do you think about my request to describe the future of Rakudo in chunkable pieces?

Patrick:

  • that's one of my goals
  • I'm doing a small part of that in my report to the Mozilla Foundation
  • in a longer-term goal, I want to describe what will get us through the summer

Will:

  • that's been on my TODO list for Parrot as well
  • Google Docs now supports Gantt charts in their spreadsheets
  • I've had positive feedback on the RT widget I posted in there
  • having something shiny and available might be good for marketing

Jesse:

  • even having something internal that's plain text would be good

Will:

  • we have existing milestones to look at as a start

Patrick:

  • who's planning to go to OSCON?
  • will we have Perl 6 meetings before or after OSCON?

Allison:

  • the weekend before I have a meeting
  • the weekend after might work
  • are other people around?

Jesse:

  • I'm mostly free

Patrick:

  • I was thinking of flying out Saturday afternoon
  • might need to find a place to stay

Will:

  • I won't be at OSCON
  • is anyone going to YAPC::EU this year?

Jesse:

  • probably, but not sure

Patrick:

  • arranging for funding, would like to go

Allison:

  • hadn't planned on it
  • but if there's a group of hackers who'd like to hack, I can arrange it

Will:

  • there's a chance I might be able to go

Nicholas:

  • what's the replacement for IMCC?

Jerry:

  • PIRC
  • much cleaner
  • still lex and yacc

Patrick:

  • would the bytecode PMCs be a good Summer of Code project?

Allison:

  • it's pretty big
  • a C-based bytecode generation library might be a good project

Patrick:

  • PCT could use that instead of going to PIR and then through IMCC
  • I'll add that to the wiki

Nicholas:

  • if the end date is in August, what if it fails and we don't know until then?

Patrick:

  • it's not on the critical path

c:

  • we want it eventually, but...

Jerry:

  • we can go to Parrot 1.0 without PIRC

Allison:

  • definitely

Patrick:

  • but if someone wants to do it outside of GSoC that's fine too

c:

  • I'll convince TPF to give them a medal

Jerry:

  • we have five days to convince someone to do this project though
  • is the longest token matcher on the critical path to Perl 6.0?
  • any estimate on that, Larry?

Larry:

  • what I have almost works in prototype
  • it works most of the time
  • getting it robust enough to where I can use it on the grammar itself is harder to estimate
  • the main problem right now is that I'm prototyping it with tagged regular expressions if the longest token actually matches and succeeds
  • one of the ways we've defined the matching to work is that you can put assertions after the match which can fail and nullify the match
  • so the engine has to have a way of backing off on a match
  • TRE isn't up to that in its current form
  • I might have to read the code and tweak it
  • long-term, we should write something that does longest token matching in Perl 6 which does a parallel NFA traverse of the longest toking rules with the requisite backoff semantics
  • I had one of those half-written some months ago before I decided to prototype it with TRE

Jerry:

  • what would it take to get concurrency working in Rakudo based on what's in Parrot already?

Larry:

  • I meant character matching in parallel, not OS-level concurrency

Patrick:

  • more important is MMD

Allison:

  • that's the next one

Patrick:

  • a lot of things in Perl 6 depend on MMD working
  • or solving problems for you
  • otherwise you have to emulate it to make it look like what's happening
  • that's where Jonathan's holding up on stuff
  • Rakudo will too
  • MMD, strings, and concurrency are my priorities
  • may not be true from the IO perspective, though
  • my working plan for Rakudo is that I want to get it along the way with features
  • then step back and revisit PGE and the regex engine, starting with Larry's prototype
  • I'd like to do that before the summer conferences to sit down with Larry face-to-face
  • may or may not come to pass
  • but my working plan is to look at longest-token matching in PGE in mid-to-late summer

Allison:

  • what's the blocker with Rakudo and MMD?

Patrick:

  • Rakudo doesn't implement it yet
  • the next blocker is that we'll use MMD this month
  • then I'll be able to identify problems and potential problems

Allison:

  • those notes'll feed in to the real, final implementation
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