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chromatic (983)

chromatic
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http://wgz.org/chromatic/

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Saturday December 15, 2007
12:31 AM

Perl 6 Design Minutes for 12 December 2007

[ #35104 ]

The Perl 6 design team met on 12 December 2007 by phone. Allison, Patrick, Will, Jerry, Jesse, Richard, and chromatic attended.

Patrick:

  • it looks possible that I could meet up with Flavio in Europe after FOSDEM at the end of February
  • we're talking on IRC
  • things are going really well
  • I managed to convert Pynie to the new compiler tools on the plane last weekend
  • four forty-minute chunks were enough to do it, plus some time in the airport
  • mostly answering questions and helping people convert various languages over to the new toolkit
  • Perl 6 has some more passing tests and new features
  • we're getting the features passed in a correct manner that matches the intent of the spec
  • removing some of the previous workarounds
  • I'm happy about that
  • we've had some discussions about coordinating between kp6 and this effort
  • we're going to see if we can get kp6 to target NQP
  • it's been a very full week; refer to my journal

Jerry:

  • converted Punie to NQP
  • it's passing some of the tests that were TODO
  • there are some things in the compiler toolkit that aren't quite ready yet, so I'll block on them
  • slurpy arguments for example

Patrick:

  • I'll try to get that in there tonight
  • it's not difficult

Jerry:

  • had some discussions with Flavio and other kp6 developers
  • we're talking about coordination efforts
  • Flavio started an NQP backend for kp6 today
  • it's amazing how similar these things are
  • we already have the 01-tap.t test running on kp6 using NQP

Jesse:

  • it sounds like there'll be a fair bit of overlap between these projects

Jerry:

  • we'll both be able to target the Parrot backend through the compiler tools
  • then we can steal information on algorithms and techniques used between the two
  • eventually converge on a solution

Jesse:

  • how different are the implementations?

Jerry:

  • I'm not familiar enough with the internals of kp6 to answer that
  • Patrick will tell you that kp6 and mp6 inspired NQP earlier
  • the architectures are somewhat similar

Patrick:

  • one big question in terms of similarity
  • how does kp6 handle a runtime environment?
  • NQP doesn't handle one beyond what Parrot does
  • that depends on how kp6 implements its primitives and what they happen to be

Jerry:

  • I need to turn my attention back to Perl 6
  • definitely busy with these three implementations

Allison:

  • I think I fixed the concurrency bug from last week
  • a threading deadlock only present in MP machines
  • it came down to a wake signal getting sent too early for the sleeping thread to catch it
  • waiting for confirmation from people with affected machines
  • did check in the last bits of the event handler code
  • pretty much the last task of that
  • just need to switch the capturing of low-level signals from the old event thread to the new concurrency scheduler thread
  • that'll be the end of that implementation
  • next is the MMD PDD

Will:

  • is that still on target for the 15th, or will you push that back?

Allison:

  • it'll be a couple of days after the 15th, but it won't be much longer than that
  • it takes about three days to do a good solid PDD

c:

  • fixed a couple of nasty Parrot bugs
  • one in the concurrency system
  • tried to implement the copy opcode, but have some questions
  • also still planning to implement the scheduling algorithm, unless Allison has finished it

Allison:

  • it's a naive queue right now
  • not needed until we add other things to the scheduler
  • but it'll get used when you add it

Will:

  • I'll cut the 0.5.1 release next Tuesday, so Allison can do real work
  • we have six release managers for next year, so the schedule will come out along with the release
  • minor cleanup in the tree too
  • that's about it

Richard:

  • TPF officially accepted Patrick's work for the past month
  • we reported that to the Mozilla Foundation too
  • made a public announcement on news.perlfoundation.org
  • very happy to release that good news to the world
  • spending some time looking for hackathon sponsors

c:

  • let me bring up the question about the copy operator
  • it's not clear how to know which pieces of a PMC to copy

Patrick:

  • that's why I suggested the use of clone in my original proposal

c:

  • we need a clone that reuses a header
  • we probably also need to call destroy to handle any deallocation, or we may have unreachable memory

Allison:

  • as long as all destroys behave properly and just deallocate things

c:

  • we have a nice separation between destruction and deallocation, so well-behaved ones should be fine

Patrick:

  • maybe the right way to refactor this is to say that copy takes an existing header and does the copy
  • clone creates a new header and does the copy
  • certainly easier than updating every PMC's assign

c:

  • that's a flash of insight, so I'll try that

Patrick:

  • I'm so glad you're doing that and not me

c:

  • I get that a lot

Jesse:

  • I'm so glad you're doing Perl 6, Patrick

Richard:

  • can I just say that I've been watching the discussions between particle, Patrick, and Flavio and I'm impressed at the forward progress?
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