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chromatic (983)

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Journal of chromatic (983)

Tuesday December 04, 2007
12:47 AM

Perl 6 Design Minutes for 28 November 2007

[ #35040 ]

The Perl 6 design team met by phone on 28 November 2007. Larry, Allison, Patrick, Will, Jesse, Richard, and chromatic attended.


  • recovering from Thanksgiving; took the week off
  • working on getting the State of the Onion ready for
  • gave a talk at work on the history of Perl in terms of development, revision control, et cetera
  • stuff you guys all know
  • I had to organize it in a way to present it to work


  • could the slides stand alone?
  • other people not tied into the community might find them interesting


  • mostly just reiterating what's out there
  • continued to fiddle with the longest token parser
  • just want to keep the cache loaded as long as possible
  • I feel like I'm getting my brain back now from the last month's sleeplessness
  • nothing exciting coming up soon in terms of Perl


  • I have always-on ADSL now in my flat
  • this week I've been doing a first implementation of the concurrency PDD
  • necessary for the events deadline for Saturday
  • adding in a few details to the concurrency PDD
  • there are some pieces I didn't realize we needed until I started coding


  • how much is threading and how much is the more interesting models?


  • it includes what some older systems would call threading
  • it also includes Intel's TBB
  • we have multiple concurrency models: exceptions, events, async IO
  • there's one centeral concurrency model
  • it's more modern than people would call the classic threading model
  • that's why the name is "concurrency", to escape the threads-only box
  • I'll finish off the events PDD next
  • then think about the multiple dispatch PDD and implementation for January
  • have to work on some talks for January
  • probably need to work on the Python implementation for that


  • that's part of my grant specifically
  • I planned to get it started and back to its current point with NQP
  • you can pick it up from there
  • I'll probably present that to the local Python group again
  • it'll be a bigger example of NQP that's not Perl 6
  • that's easier
  • there are also a couple of local people interested in hacking on it who didn't like the looks of all-PIR right away
  • given that I wrote the original Pynie in eight hours, I think the new version shouldn't take too long to put together


  • I'll be speaking about Parrot at Microsoft in March
  • it's the weekly DLR meeting
  • John Lam's putting out a broader invite in the company as a whole


  • published a roadmap for the Perl 6 compiler
  • getting feedback on that
  • basically finished the AST implementation for now
  • basically finished NQP for now
  • posted an example of driving SDL from NQP
  • reimplemented abc in NQP
  • the only PIR code it has is for subroutines that are trickier in NQP than in PIR (for now)
  • they're all basically short five-line subroutines
  • added a bunch of comments to the grammar yesterday


  • the things that are easier in PIR than NQP, does that indicate a lack in NQP?


  • they're primitives
  • to do an add
  • NQP can do one, but it's just actually easier to write the code that does it because it's straight to go to the right opcode there
  • those kinds of things
  • basic, built-in primitives are easier to write in PIR
  • once you get above that layer, it's much easier to write in NQP
  • there are 256 lines in all of the transformations for abc
  • half of that is comments
  • working on some Parrot cleanups
  • next up is reimplementing Perl 6 in terms of NQP
  • that shouldn't take too long
  • maybe two or three days, but I have some other work to do
  • I don't want to lose my good momentum here
  • trying to keep my journal up to date daily


  • not a lot of progress, just some cleanups
  • if anyone working on a big task has some smaller bits to break off, I'll do them
  • I'm happy to write the compiler tutorial for you, Patrick


  • glad to be away for a month then come back with nothing on my plate
  • but I'm looking forward to writing the Perl 6 compiler with Patrick
  • possibly working on a tutorial, the abc one
  • might be able to do that one


  • I already wrote the comments for the transformation
  • we could use some explanation in the grammar
  • people look at that
  • it's not always clear even if you've read S05
  • a common question is "What's the difference between rule and token?"
  • I put a little cheat sheet in the comments


  • doing a lot of cleanup this week, especially in languages/
  • cleaned up a lot of cruft
  • trying to get the RT queue in a more manageable state
  • nowhere near complete, but Patrick and I have made a dent in the past few days
  • I had some stuff in hand, but chromatic's already working on it
  • I can focus on converting some other languages, like APL
  • also want to get Patrick's journal added to Planet Parrot so they can see his work


  • a bit of additional work after the Mozilla Foundation grant


  • CJ Collier mentioned interest in hacking Perl 6 on .NET
  • not sure where that's going to end up
  • it's nice to have someone hacking on it to see if it'll work though rather than assuming it won't
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