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chromatic (983)

chromatic
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http://wgz.org/chromatic/

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Journal of chromatic (983)

Monday October 29, 2007
05:05 PM

Perl 6 Design Meeting Minutes for 24 October 2007

[ #34783 ]

The Perl 6 design team met by phone on 24 October 2007. Larry, Allison, Patrick, Jerry, Will, Jesse, and chromatic attended.

Larry:

  • mostly under the weather this week for one reason or another
  • most of my progress has been thinking, with not much to show for it
  • difficult to type with tendinitis and one arm in a sling
  • starting to think about spec tweaks
  • nothing terribly major
  • a bunch of pending feedback from Wolfgang Luan to handle
  • just hanging out and being available for questions on IRC
  • kp6 is now making more progress on hooking up to a Parrot backend

Jesse:

  • who's doing the work on that?

Larry:

  • they're just getting up to speed now

Jerry:

  • Daniel Loca
  • I've been in touch with him
  • he's targeting PIR right now
  • we're talking about doing transformations at the AST level
  • that would involve a materialization of the AST
  • we've talked to Ingy about doing that in YAML
  • Patrick's AST PDD draft is a good starting point
  • I consolidated a bunch of Parrot's runcore command-line options
  • just need to decide how to deprecate the old options
  • improved the parallel make performance too
  • I put the process that took the longest first in the list, not last
  • seem to be making one step forward and getting two TODOs
  • I'm gearing up to help with progress toward Perl 6, but I have vacation in November

Jesse:

  • what are you blocking on?

Jerry:

  • the remainder of the AST implementation
  • that's to work on Perl 6
  • I'll also be working on the exceptions implementation with Kevin Tew
  • he submitted a patch that Allison and I are looking at

Patrick:

  • things are pretty good
  • mostly cleaning things up and making progress on NQP and the AST representation
  • cleanup with respect to PDD 15 and S05 over the past few months
  • inside of NQP, I removed the notion of using return to return the AST; it now uses make
  • also wrote a preliminary implementation of protobjects
  • it's a nice abstraction layer
  • externally everything looks the same at that layer, even as we muck with the internals
  • we can split things into namespaces and the like without affecting customers of that interface
  • also talking about YAML representations of the AST
  • that doesn't depend on PDD 26 from my perspective
  • we just need a YAML representation where each node has a type, a hash, and an array

Allison:

  • continued cleaning up a few last failing tests after the PDD 15 branch merge
  • decided not to clean up some failures in prototyped systems that don't have specifications, so marked those as TODO
  • continued removing old object code including ParrotObject and ParrotClass
  • preparing for the 0.5.0 release
  • started looking at the exceptions PDD
  • aside from the stuff Kevin has done and adding the introspection interface, there are two things left: writing comprehensive tests and reviewing at the exception hierarchy
  • started a discussion of the PIR PDD draft
  • should be out of draft within the week

c:

  • checked in my GC runcore after Jerry consolidated the argument options
  • found several problems
  • fixed most of those, but there are a couple of tough ones
  • somehow we reclaimed most of Tcl, for example, but Will found another hairy problem there

Will:

  • trying to find ways to remove bookkeeping that we need to manage
  • mostly reclaimed Tcl
  • plan to run language tests through this runcore after we get Tcl fixed up
  • think we'll be able to find and fix more memory issues there
  • probably some PMC-related stuff that's undertested in the core

Jesse:

  • talking to the folks working on kp6 and the Lispish backends
  • the performance and compliance are impressing me
  • I'll drop Damian a line this afternoon

Jerry:

  • someone asked on #perl6 about .NET developers interested in Perl 6 on .NET?

Larry:

  • CJ Collier noted that there was some interest in getting Perl 6 running there
  • he interrogated me as to some of the difficulties I saw there
  • he forwarded them Eric Lippert
  • mostly Eric agreed to my concerns
  • I'm willing to help if someone else drives it, but I won't code it myself

Jerry:

  • that VM has some challenges to overcome to implement Perl 6

Larry:

  • if there's interest from within Microsoft in doing that port, I don't think they should be discouraged

Jerry:

  • I'm happy to meet with them in person if they want

Jesse:

  • I'm sure Jonathan would have interesting input as well

Allison:

  • which languages are working after the merge?

c:

  • Pheme, but I also tried Tcl, Lua, and Perl 6

Jerry:

  • APL and Punie are working

Patrick:

  • NQP is working
  • I figure I'll end up redoing Perl 6 in NQP in a few weeks
  • we'll have a working version somehow before 0.5.0

Will:

  • we can just run make test and get that working

Jerry:

  • we should work on getting all languages back to their previous state before 0.5.0

Will:

  • I'll start a migration guide on the wiki

Patrick:

  • the compiler toolkit change is going to protobjects which solves a lot of problems
  • I haven't looked at PAST-pm
  • if someone looks at that or wants my help, that's fine
  • I don't think it would take long to fix it

Allison:

  • we might just migrate them to PCT anyway

Patrick:

  • it's time to start migrating things
  • I'm trying to get PCT running so people can migrate to it
  • if we're within a week of release date and the migration doesn't look solid, I'll backport things so that the other languages can work
  • so far the object model seems to be working really well for all of the stuff I need
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