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chromatic (983)

chromatic
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http://wgz.org/chromatic/

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Journal of chromatic (983)

Thursday May 17, 2007
07:28 PM

Perl 6 Design Minutes for 16 May 2007

[ #33302 ]

The Perl 6 Design Team met on 16 May 2007 by phone. Larry, Damian, Allison, Patrick, Jesse, Nicholas, and chromatic attended. These are the minutes.

Allison:

  • resting up and feel better
  • working on the PMC PDD
  • checked in the first draft, but it still needs some work
  • spent the weekend reviewing patches and resolving bugs

Jesse:

  • anything standing in your way?

Allison:

  • a handful of C developers would be nice

c:

  • released Parrot 0.4.12
  • didn't get as much coding done as I wanted
  • it's a solid release though
  • right now I'm cleaning up some code files
  • will write up a getting started guide soon though
  • intended to help people interested in any language to start hacking on Parrot or write languages
  • send people with questions my way

Larry:

  • last week's What's Wrong Perl 6 meditation on PerlMonks solicited information
  • seemed well-intentioned
  • it did provide a place for people to link to if there are good responses
  • I tried to respond to the honest questions and ignore the disingenuous ones
  • more clarifications as requested
  • seems like I've been answering a lot of questions on IRC about what semantics are explained where
  • mostly new people trying to come up to speed
  • we'll have a bunch more once Pugs 6.28 is out and we start getting a compiler bootstrapped in Perl 6
  • mostly now just doing research and thinking about my talks

Damian:

  • still occupied with family issues

Patrick:

  • checked in a draft of the abc grammar
  • have some comments and feedback on that
  • seems to have universal appeal
  • studied Larry's STD grammar in more detail
  • expect to have a working implementation of abc using those details by this time next week
  • also should have a fairly significant start of the Perl 6 grammar too
  • turns out to be easier than I anticipated
  • it's exciting
  • the embedded actions can become a token in PGE
  • it can execute those actions at runtime
  • you have a ParseToAST object you pass to the grammar
  • it'll fire off those actions at runtime
  • that makes it pluggable
  • should be straightforward enough that other people can contribute patches
  • especially with a standard grammar that people can work from
  • I'll plug rules from that into the existing grammar
  • goal is to use that grammar outright for everything
  • I may propose patches to the standard grammar too

Larry:

  • okay

Patrick:

  • my biggest work at the moment is looking at the bottom-up parser
  • figuring out how to do something similar in PGE
  • PGE's parser might be somewhat different
  • a lot of languages won't need what Perl 6 does
  • I'll keep a simplified version around for abc, mini Perl 6, etc
  • it should look pretty good
  • expect to have something workable by this time next week

Larry:

  • there are certainly bugs in what I've written

Patrick:

  • I've found and ignored a few

Larry:

  • there may even be egregious design errors

Patrick:

  • I'll bring them up
  • having the grammar in full is helpful
  • seeing contextual variables is a ton of help

Damian:

  • that's excellent and very exciting

Jesse:

  • now that you have the release out c, are you still looking at Patrick's stuff?

c:

  • after I get the "getting started" guide done, I'll look at PGE and parsing and PAST
  • need to port Pheme to HLLCompiler, for example
  • intended as better tutorial documentation

Patrick:

  • I'm glad to see that
  • lots of people could use it

Jesse:

  • the two Perl 6 microgrants seem to be making progress
  • even if they've been slow the past weeks
  • we'll try to choose smaller grants next time
  • maybe more visible progress

c:

  • I like the work Steve Peters has done
  • it's led to some cleanups outside of his patches
  • I use it as examples for some of my cleanups

Larry:

  • with Perl 5 state variables, if you clone a closure do you get a clone of the state variable as well?

Nicholas:

  • Rafael knows better

Larry:

  • the correct behavior is that every time you create a clone of the closure, you get a new initialized state variable
  • if you treat it like a C static, you get the wrong behavior

Nicholas:

  • I think it's like a my variable in the lexical pad
  • there was something weird with pp_assign if the rvalue is a function for example

Larry:

  • I just want to make sure there aren't a bunch of broken Perl 5 scripts

Nicholas:

  • I think it's okay
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