Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
NOTE: use Perl; is on undef hiatus. You can read content, but you can't post it. More info will be forthcoming forthcomingly.

All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

use Perl Log In

Log In

[ Create a new account ]

chromatic (983)

chromatic
  (email not shown publicly)
http://wgz.org/chromatic/

Blog Information [technorati.com] Profile for chr0matic [technorati.com]

Journal of chromatic (983)

Friday April 27, 2007
05:46 PM

Perl 6 Design Meeting Minutes for 25 April 2007

[ #33130 ]

The Perl 6 design team met by phone on 25 April 2007. Larry, Allison, Jesse, Nicholas, and chromatic attended. These are the minutes.

Larry:

  • catching up with Damian's barrage of commentary on the Synopses
  • finished that last night
  • checking my grammar for things I've used but not defined
  • found a few things
  • otherwise holding forth as usual

Allison:

  • it's not too late for a Parrot 1.0!
  • spending time this week on mailing list messages
  • getting some private messages about the significance of Parrot
  • not sure why this last release kicked off something like that
  • also preparing a talk for LinuxFest NW this weekend
  • just putting together the PMC PDD
  • seems to be going well
  • not all that much radical change needed
  • just collecting changes from various documents into something manageable
  • will try to check in a draft this week, but maybe next week

c:

  • I've been cleaning up Parrot's memory management and GC
  • fixed a couple of memory leaks
  • really improved memory performance, but have a few more tweaks to go
  • I'm shepherding the next release
  • trying to get object system more complete
  • if we only get code cleanups in, that makes a big difference though

Jesse:

  • check with Steve Peters about his microgrant
  • he'll have more patches in the next day or two
  • I just want to make sure he doesn't get burned out before he meets his goals for specific platforms
  • Phil Crow is doing design work with Tim Bunce
  • he's making progress
  • have talked to Jerry Gay about reimplementing its configuration system
  • just want to make sure we don't dump another project into Parrot's lap unnecessarily

Nicholas:

  • Spider Boardman, I think, pointed out that autoconf is a right *expletive* if it guesses wrong
  • metaconfig is more verbose and lets you override pieces of it

c:

  • what's the approximate work of porting metaconfig to Parrot
  • at least the language part of it?

Larry:

  • I don't think of it as a separate language
  • it's been a while since I looked at it though

Nicholas:

  • it generates a configuration script written in the Bourne shell
  • the internal dependency resolver generates that

Larry:

  • it uses make and Perl

Nicholas:

  • in theory, the thing that needs porting to Parrot is the units that make up the script
  • only the output script, the equivalent to Configure, needs to run everywhere

Larry:

  • it's an awful lot of years of knowledge baked into those configuration units
  • not all of it well-commented as to its intent
  • it's been so long since I've had anything to do with it
  • it has a lot of support for hardware that someone somewhere has in his garage and hasn't booted in five years
  • the basic idea of Configure is sound though
  • probe for features, not platforms
  • if you hard-wire platform information, you've probably failed
  • if possible, you want to test something by compiling and running it
  • you can't guess that it's there if the header exists

Allison:

  • I haven't put removing Perl as a high priority
  • that's why we haven't worked on it yet
  • the reason it might be on the 1.0 path is that our current configuration and build system doesn't really work properly
  • the amount of work for getting it to do so versus getting our ultimate solution working is equivalent
  • it makes more sense to think about what we ultimately want to use

c:

  • it's not just configuration too
  • the PMC and NCI processing and generation systems are important too

Allison:

  • I'm okay with the idea of using autoconf or metaconf that pulls the information into a layer that Parrot can use

Jesse:

  • what's next for the grammar, Larry?

Larry:

  • Pugs can parse it with some cheating
  • I remove and transform certain problematic constructs
  • then Pugs can parse it
  • Pugs doesn't run it after that though
  • getting it to run, even with cheating, would fast-forward a bootstrap

Jesse:

  • who could do that work?

Larry:

  • cmarcelo talked about hacking a regex engine into Haskell, but that didn't happen
  • a lot of the problems come from the chewing gum and bailing wire within the Haskell code and trying to hand off the problem to another engine
  • doesn't lend itself to working well
  • don't know if I should try to prototype a regex engine in Perl 6 for people to hand-translate to other things
  • in a sense we already have one of those
  • well, two: Perl 5's PCR and Parrot's PGE
  • it's one thing to parse the thing
  • it's another to return the data structures back that would be a full parse tree
  • having sufficient indirection in your rule set
  • call some things as methods
  • call rules by different names
  • things like that
  • I knew it was several steps beyond where everyone was when I put it out there
  • I saw everyone aiming at S05 but ending up in much different places
  • mostly it's just a common target to help people converge
  • hopefully our methods and rules will end up named the same
  • maybe our AST would have the same node names everywhere

Damian:

As Larry mentioned, I've been busy deluging him with Synoptic feedback.

I've also released two more updates of Perl6::Perldoc, with some major improvements in robustness, correctness, and functionality.

Otherwise, I've been working on organizing my speaking tours for July and September. I will be available as Larry's henchspeaker for the Perl 6 update talks at YAPC::Houston, OSCON, and YAPC::Vienna.

The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More | Login | Reply
Loading... please wait.