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chromatic (983)

chromatic
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http://wgz.org/chromatic/

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Thursday March 15, 2007
05:18 PM

Perl 6 Meeting Notes for 07 March 2007

[ #32704 ]

The Perl 6 design team met by phone on 07 March 2007. Larry, Damian, Allison, Nicholas, Jesse, and chromatic attended. These are the minutes.

Damian:

  • feeling under the weather and unproductive
  • tried coding the other day, but it was like those pictures of spiders on acid
  • I backed that out
  • decided to read through the Synopses instead
  • sending Larry feedback
  • very minor feedback
  • just about finished Synopses 4
  • Synopsis 3 is surprisingly long
  • should finish within the week

c:

  • finished updating the Perl 6 design docs published on Perl.com
  • every page now links to the relevant Synopsis on dev.perl.org

Allison:

  • had a great Hackathon in the Netherlands this past week
  • I hacked with Jonathan and Liz on the Parrot object metamodel
  • pushed tewk's experiments in
  • not sure Jonathan has checked in everything
  • very concrete, much less theoretical

Nicholas:

  • Rick Delaney asked p5p what the MAD stuff is
  • I answered what I could

Larry:

  • I responded to that

Nicholas:

  • he said that he might start doing things, if it's interesting
  • he wants to manipulate the optree
  • so he probably will use the B:: modules

Larry:

  • fiddled around with the semantics of ranges
  • their use as intervals does not conflict with their use as beginning and ending points
  • settling in on the syntax for assigning rules for symbolic operators
  • generalizing that identifiers can be qualified with adverbs in various situations
  • not just like infix operators
  • specifying long names where you want to have control over name mangling
  • turning into strings internally
  • the user gets explicit delimiters and canonicalization
  • not only for the names of rules
  • going back to the names of modules
  • there's a three-part hyphenated special case
  • the real name of the module is probably an identifer with various adverbs
  • trying to see where that sort of thing comes through
  • fielding Damian's Synopses feedback
  • lots of Pugs activity going on
  • converting internal data types to the new meta-object model
  • many of the regression tests are red at the moment
  • improving from here on in
  • continuing to look for various simplifications
  • did delete the short form of .assuming
  • that went unmourned

Jesse:

  • getting close to being able to do Perl 6 microgrants
  • that's most of it for me

Damian:

  • I'm watching a p6l thread with horror
  • trying to nail down the star as an array index
  • I want to straighten this out within my own head
  • we want a syntax that allows us to use ordinals, instead of indices
  • in case an array doesn't start from zero
  • if you have an offset from whatever, that might be useful
  • the current mutation seems very different
  • was that the goal?
  • should there be an ordinal way to specify array elements, not just a cardinal way?

c:

  • I could have used the ordinal syntax yesterday, actually
  • we had that in Perl 5, for negative indices

Damian:

  • only from the wrong end
  • it would be nice to have it for both ends

Larry:

  • I do like the notion that square brackets for your subscript always assumes that your indices always start from zero
  • great benefit to clarity
  • I do like the idea that the curlies indicate something fancier
  • we can certainly figure out where the ordinal syntax is going
  • what exactly does the whatever-star mean?
  • does it have a consistent gloss that the user can read?
  • if you see a star in a subscripty position, can it always mean "the keys in this spot"

Damian:

  • I like that
  • good idea
  • makes it easier to teach

Larry:

  • the basic idea is sound here

Damian:

  • I'm nervous about using curly braces on arrays
  • eliminates almost the last syntactic hint differentiating them from hashes
  • maybe the fixed sigils always helps there
  • I'm worried about accesses through references though

Larry:

  • it sort of is an ordered hash
  • you can view it that way

Damian:

  • maybe the *-1 and *+0 needs to disappear
  • I'll look more into it

Larry:

  • regarding string auto-increment
  • you gave a more generalized regex
  • your example though, would end up incrementing the jpg not the filename

Damian:

  • I wanted to achieve a more sophisticated regex
  • not sure I did that
  • I can almost see the regex that does it
  • want me to have another run at it?
  • that particular case has bitten me a few times
  • if we have a chance to fix it, maybe we should
  • another question from S04
  • we returned to a named iterator in a for loop aliasing $_ at some point
  • that makes it impossible to put a for loop inside a given

Larry:

  • we'll have to weigh that up again
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