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chromatic (983)

chromatic
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http://wgz.org/chromatic/

Blog Information [technorati.com] Profile for chr0matic [technorati.com]

Journal of chromatic (983)

Thursday August 03, 2006
02:48 AM

Perl 6 Design Meeting Notes for 02 August 2006

[ #30521 ]

Larry, Allison, Jesse, Nicholas, and chromatic attended the Perl 6 design meeting on 02 August 2006. These are the minutes.

Allison:

  • working on PDDs
  • finished the namespaces one for now
  • there'll probably be more modifications for merging classes and namespaces

c:

  • will it look like the Perl 6 package, module, class, etc?

Allison:

  • probably similar
  • what is a namespace outside of a class?
  • just a namespace object
  • or a namespace role on a module object
  • hope to get Chip implementing the exceptions PDD soon
  • need to get on some of the other PDDs too
  • data types is next
  • haven't wrapped that one up yet

Larry:

  • the secondary runloops problem will run large

Allison:

  • for?

Larry:

  • anything that wants to do continuations

Allison:

  • threading and that sort of thing
  • Patrick also agreed to take on the maintainership of TGE
  • I'm happy about that
  • I wrote it as a prototype and was going to hand it off to Patrick
  • I just kept working on it longer for a while instead
  • that's it for me

Larry:

  • making sure that the Synopses and tests stay in sync
  • it's about equal work on both ends
  • there's a little bit of Haskell hacking in the middle
  • also hacking up Pugs to stay in sync with Parrot and adding in the interpreter argument
  • also was at a conference last week

Jesse:

  • is there a transcript of your SOTO online anywhere?

Larry:

  • I usually give O'Reilly first shot at that

c:

  • not much to report besides #parrotsketch
  • did manage to get Parrot::Test::Embedded working as a proof of concept

Larry:

  • the problem with the secondary runloop bothers me
  • coming to the conclusion that callbacks are evil
  • if you have any intervening C stack, you can't hope to restart without reconstructing that stack
  • instead of thinking in terms of callbacks, you have to think in terms of sending a message to the primary runloop

Nicholas:

  • this is why Dan said you can't do things across the boundary if you write a PMC in C
  • I don't think he was thinking in terms of continuations, just exceptions

Allison:

  • could you write up your thoughts, Larry?
  • I think this'll go into the external API documentation

c:

  • oh JOY

Larry:

  • I'll be thinking about that the next couple of days while driving
  • other people on the list are thinking about it more

Jesse:

  • who else is thinking about this?

c:

  • Bob Rogers and Piers Cawley (well, in the past Piers did)

Larry:

  • I'm echoing what Bob Rogers said on the list the other day
  • he wasn't thinking about message passing
  • you can still do calls and returns
  • they just have to happen in the main runloop, not a subsidiary
  • you need the right instructions to save and restore your state
  • and a way for an instruction to say "Here's what to run next"
  • almost like a tail recursion optimization
  • probably more based on a message queue
  • you don't want to slow down your main run loop more than necessary

Allison:

  • I'll make sure Bob didn't get Warnocked

c:

  • heard anything else from Mozilla Foundation?

Jesse:

  • nothing since the end of OSCON
  • I bet Zak is just getting back into things now

Nicholas:

  • Larry, how is your student doing with the SoC project?

Larry:

  • I don't have any way to measure it other than seeing the checkins
  • he probably needs to concentrate now on productization and testing

Jesse:

  • how much code can he translate now?

Larry:

  • a fair bit
  • it's an open ended project and you can do a lot of refactoring, especially in relation to objects

Jesse:

  • has he tried it on the output of Pugs' Test.pm?

Larry:

  • it would be nice to round-trip that
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