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andy.sh (8643)

andy.sh
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Journal of andy.sh (8643)

Tuesday December 02, 2008
04:37 AM

Will you use Perl?

[ #38005 ]

Be honest and answer whether you will start learning Perl if your first page in the internet about the language looks like this?

http://perlrussia.ru/temp/useperlfront.gif


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  • The use.perl.org is sometimes really driving me crazy. I was logged out 4x before I finished my last blog post :-(

  • I don't send people to use.perl because it is the "superflash" of the Perl community. It is a more utilitarian site.

    I do wish the problems would get ironed out. I, too, have hit the password thing over and over and over.

  • i think andrew ment more, that there could also more content, more colors and so. i sent content, but it was not approved. and obviously, the prob with the login should be adressed.

    • Yes, content, useless repeted links, empty page, ancient design, large javascript, slow site -- all that makes the impression on a newcomer.

  • I'm here because there's no credible alternative. use.perl is an anachronistic embarrassment for Perl, but until we get a serious alternative, we're stuck with it. And you're right, it hurts our image.

    • What would a "serious alternative" look like?

      • Multiple blogs, better control of friends, allow anonymous responses, filtering responses, trackbacks, news aggregation, tagging, probably multimedia embedding (I know many would argue that point), source code coloring, richer HTML or other markup, etc. Plus full individual customization to turn off annoying features we don't want (such as tons of useless JavaScript).

        Basically, a site which looked like it's been invented some time in the past few years would be nice. Oh, and users to actually use it. Tha

    • If you think it's an "anachronistic embarrassment", I suggest that it's your job to work with the people who run it and fix it. Or you could start yet another perl blog site that won't get used, like perlbuzz, but will at least be shiny.

    • Yawn.

  • By accident (due to one of those notorious automatic logouts -- does Slashdot have the same problem?) I happened to see the use.perl.org frontpage that unsuspecting visitors see. It's damn ugly: mostly links to "what's new on CPAN" for every single day for the last, what, 8 days? And then just one tiny framed text.

    I do like the looks of the site when I am logged in. Then I do get several of those framed articles, an no link to CPAN. I think the site is not ugly for guests on purpose, but by negligence.

    Grant

    • This is not only the design we talk about. If the website is slow and sometimes behaves unpredictably, that's bad.

    • Those who ignore marketing are doomed to repeat it.

      No offence, but marketing is not evil and ignoring it doesn't help. And citing Haskell and Common Lisp as examples of languages which don't need pretty Web sites is, well, you know :)

        • Would you please join rfc@sayperl.org mailing list by sending the addresses to join to mail@sayperl.org? It's better to disscuss something together :-)

        • I reiterate Ovid's statement, marketing is not evil. There is good marketing and bad marketing, but dismissing it as evil is to miss the point entirely.

          use.perl was an active and very current site when I joined, it's only real problem is that it doesn't have a dedicated active development team, in the way that PerlMonks has. The code is based on SlashCode and as far as I'm aware that's still the case. The data might not be available, but the code is there. Unfortunately no-one has felt moved to work on impr

        • We don't have a site like use.perl.org. Pudge has a site like use.perl.org. It's his testbed for Slashcode. That's it's main purpose. It's not yours. It's not ours. It doesn't "represent" anybody.

          If you (or a "we" that you are part of) want to have a site, then start a site.

          --
          J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
            • What does "blessed by www.perl.org" mean?
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              xoa

                • Yes, it's not listed under "Community", it's in the news feed. Part of this whole perception issue that is so baffling to me is that people, including you, seem to think that a listing on a perl.org site somehow makes the site more valuable. We need to get away from this image of the Ivory Tower of perl.org. Let's let 1,000 flowers bloom! Let's have so many Perl sites that perl.org can't possibly keep track of them all! See also "Perl needs to decentralize, diversify and colonize." http://perlbuzz.com [perlbuzz.com]
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                  xoa

                    • I don't disagree that perl.org could look better. So who's going to take action to improve it?
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                      xoa

                    • Ask and Robert. They will certainly be open to the help. However, I'd strongly suggest that you come up with actual prototypes of what you want to change to BEFORE contacting them. Lord knows they've had enough people bluster in and say "I want to change perl.org's front page!" with no results.
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                      xoa

                    • Wow, that's highly beautiful. If pudge isn't interested, I might want to use it for Perlbuzz. :-) Also, thumbs up for "None, none more comments."
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                      xoa

        • As much as I love Bill Hicks' work, that bit is not relevant to this discussion. (Plus he's really talking about advertising, not marketing)

          Everyone is in marketing. Everyone sells to everyone else. "Hey, wanna go to lunch? There's this cool Mexican place I heard about."

          Similarly, if we say "Hey, look how cool Perl is and all the cool things you can do with it," that's also marketing.

          I know it's hip to be all anti-marketing and anti-establishment, but if you want people to join our little group, y

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          xoa

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