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TorgoX (1933)
sburkeNO@SPAMcpan.org
http://search.cpan.org/~sburke/
"Il est beau comme la retractilité des serres des oiseaux rapaces [...] et surtout, comme la rencontre fortuite sur une table de dissection d'une machine à coudre et d'un parapluie !" -- Lautréamont
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«Perhaps most grotesque in this postmodern calculus of political repression is the moral blindness displayed towards the record of colonialism. For most of the last century, vast swathes of the planet remained under direct imperial European rule, enforced with the most brutal violence by states that liked to see themselves as democracies. But somehow that is not included as the third leg of 20th-century tyranny, along with Nazism and communism. There is a much-lauded Black Book of Communism, but no such comprehensive indictment of the colonial record.»
I am amazed at how easily the concept of "history" has changed from being hagiography of grandees (where knowing history meant knowing who bravely invaded/defended what when), to estimating numbers of dead (where knowing history means being able to play a game where everyone sits around and says "Oh yeah, well what about the N million dead in...", with points being scored for bigger numbers and more undeservedly obscure locales.
One of these days, history might mean the study of past ideas, instead of the assembly of stirring ethnic/national myths.
I pour myself a cup of strong coffee. :-)
-- Jarkko Hietaniemi
true (Score:1)
Is this really accurate? (Score:1)
I'm no student of history, but is this really accurate? For most of the last century, vast swathes...? And, was colonialism "the most brutal violence" in the 20th century?
The largest colony in history, that of the Indian subcontinent, ended in 1947. For the last few decades of it, it's hard to describe it a
Re:Is this really accurate? (Score:1)
workers in China?
Much of the world is involved in extractive industry (mining, logging) or
largely unskilled manufacturing work (products sold at Walmart) which end up
being used by people living in more powerful nations. Whether the people doing
this work are being kept down by a local dictator, or direct colonial rule, has
little effect on how awful the situation is.
An African travel log by a decent Irish fellow is here [struggle.ws]. French and
Re:Is this really accurate? (Score:1)
workers in China?
Much of the world is involved in extractive industry (mining, logging) or
largely unskilled manufacturing work (products sold at Walmart) which end up
being used by people living in more powerful nations. Whether the people doing
this work are being kept down by a local dictator, or direct colonial rule, has
little effect on how awful the situation is.
Somehow, American business takes the brunt of criticism here. The
Re:Is this really accurate? (Score:1)
of "straw man". Seriously! Follow that link!
Somehow, American business takes the brunt of criticism here. The left is
silent about the activities of the real slave owners, the Chinese Political
Machine and their like worldwide.
At no point did I suggest support for the Chinese state, or the horribly corrupt
people who run it, or the system that leads to such corruption ard repression.
The nastiness of a colonial government does not change the colonial
relationship.
If you don't draw some
Re:Is this really accurate? (Score:1)
of "straw man". Seriously! Follow that link!
I know what a 'straw man' is. I wasn't really debating there. I was trying to draw you out on what you really believe.
against majorities cannot be motivated by Hate)...
You are assuming
that anyone who acknowledges injustice in the current world supports these
things? Do you actually know anyone who does either of them?
What do you believe? Up to now, I've not
Re:Is this really accurate? (Score:1)
1. Are you asserting that the US worker's relationship (via Walmart) with workers in China is not colonial?
2. While Walmart is not responsible for the actions of Chinese elites, it pays money to said elites, and certainly does not aim to depose them. So I agree with you that one cannot blame solely the owners of Walmart for the sorry situation of Chinese workers.
3. Do you not agree that these "evil American Capitalists" exist, and are powerful? Have you been paying attentio
Re:Is this really accurate? (Score:1)
I'm not sure what you are saying here. Is China like a US colony because we buy goods from them?
Is your argument is that they are like a colony because they get so little for their goods because they are essentially slave labor?
I don't get it. If Wal-Mart didn't buy their goods, then the Japanese, Russians, Indians, Australians and Europeans would buy their goods. Oh, guess what? They all do!
Re:Is this really accurate? (Score:1)
Is your argument is that they are like a colony because they get so little for their goods because they are essentially slave labor?
Yes.
Is anyone who buys goods made in China contributory to their enslavement? Or, is it possibly more complicated that that?
Yes, and yes.
If the commercialization of China is increasing their standard of living, as it appears to be, is there more opportunity for the Chinese to become educated and help to throw off their own chains?