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TeeJay (2309)

TeeJay
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http://www.aarontrevena.co.uk/

Working in Truro
Graduate with BSc (Hons) in Computer Systems and Networks
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Journal of TeeJay (2309)

Friday February 14, 2003
04:54 AM

Bomb Isreal Not Iraq

[ #10580 ]
If our governments really wanted peace in the middle east and to remove the causes of terrorism we would be going to war with isreal instead of iraq.

Isreal has a long history of illegal military actions, massacres, genocide and its own apartheid system that makes 50's south africa look positively liberal.

Its a kafka-esque nightmare where palestinians are detained without charge, or trial and with no evidence.

The isreali mentallity is so out of touch that they accuse belgium of being anti-semetics just for allowing Ariel Sharon to be tried for genocide - apparently its ok for Isreal to do the same to foreigners for crimes against jews (and execute them) but not okay for jews to be tried for known atrocities. How can the US forgive and forget the US ship that isreali fighters straffed and bombed, killing the entire crew to cover up intercepted radio transmissions about the massacre of palestinian civillians by the isreali armed forces.

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  • How can the US forgive and forget the US ship that isreali fighters straffed and bombed, killing the entire crew to cover up intercepted radio transmissions about the massacre of palestinian civillians by the isreali armed forces.

    Ignoring the blatent trolling for a moment, what's your source for the last paragraph ?

    • panorama and the independant and the guardian [guardian.co.uk].

      google for USS Liberty.

      This isn't a troll. I am serious when I say that Isreal is a far bigger danger in the middle east than Iraq.

      Iraq is only a danger to Isreal and possibly Kuwait - neither has a better Human Rights or Denmocracy record than Iraq - They just happen to be US Allies.

      Desteroying Isreals military infrastructure and weapons of mass destruction would bring peace far quicker than bombing iraq - so bombing isreal makes more sense than bombing

      --

      @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
      print reverse @JAPH;
      • Interesting. I hadn't heard about that.

        As a matter of accuracy however, since this page will end up getting indexed somewhere, I feel obliged to point out that (a) the entire crew was not killed as some crew members are quoted extensively in the article; and (b) the US covered it up themselves as there was an election coming so it's hardly in their interest to make much of a fuss about it now.

        BTW - It's not that I disagree with you on the need to deal with Israel's breach of UN resolutions. Oh and we coul

        • Actually Isreal is very relevent to perl for several reasons

          Firstly there is the matter of YAPC::Isreal and the isreali perl monger groups. How would we deal with other pariah nations that are involved in perl like North Korea, Zimbabwe or Iraq?

          Then there is the matter of Isreal being a big-hitter in the IT industry - the IT industry and the perl community is part of that - cannot just ignore the actions of Isreal when.

          Look at how academia is dealing with isreals actions - boycotts and brushing under

          --

          @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
          print reverse @JAPH;
          • Best just to get rid of perl all together then !

            If you're a USian of a certain viewpoint, you want YAPC::Europe canned [perl.org].

            Some might boycott YAPC::NA for the American handling of military aid to Columbia [monbiot.com].

            One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter etc etc.

            Perl is above all this. Since I've been involved with perl I've met so many interesting people from all over the world with many different views and cultures. As individuals we all have our part to play in the world, but perl is independent of it

            • on the contrary.

              The people on use.perl are on the whole intelligent - if we don't agree on which templating system to use there is no reason to agree on politics.

              Intelligent disscussion is better than boycotts or heads in the sand. I don't see a problem with pointing out that the gains from bombing isreal rather than iraq would be greater.

              I don't support bombing of any nation, regardless of its regime or people. I was against the bombing of kosovo and I;m against the bombing of iraq.

              I believe we nee

              --

              @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
              print reverse @JAPH;
        • I feel obliged to point out that (a) the entire crew was not killed as some crew members are quoted extensively in the article

          I was going to correct this but I see you already did. I thought I'd mention that we had one of the surviving crew members speak at a military function when I was stationed at Fort Meade. Now *there* was a man who hated Israel.

          In case anyone is wondering *why* they attacked our ship, it was an attempt to draw us into the Yom Kippur War. Israel was rather pissed that we weren't

          • The ship was listlening to radio broadcasts that incriminated Israel in genocide so it was desteroyed before the secret got out. This is well documented.

            --

            @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
            print reverse @JAPH;
            • Oops, I thought it happened during the Yom Kippur War, not the Six Day War. I'd be wary of a story like this though, simply because it relies on supposedly classified information that has supposedly been leaked. It's not impossible, though.

              Oh, and wacking prisoners is hardly something that's unique to Israel. Happens in almost every war on every side.

        • Iraq is only a danger to Isreal and possibly Kuwait - neither has a better Human Rights or Denmocracy record than Iraq - They just happen to be US Allies.

        I seem to recall Iraq starting a war with Iran and using chemical weapons in that war. So, Iraq is a danger to more than Kuwait and Israel.

        Saudi Arabia was quite concerned when Iraq swept into Kuwait that they would keep going and occupy their country as well. It was only quick military build up by the Americans and European allies that prevented thi

        • Iraq started a war with Iran after America forced out the democratically elected leader and installed a puppet and gave him chemical weapons to use on 'them dirty arabs'.

          Saudi arabia had more than enough military might to handle Iraq. It buys more than the entire iraqi army every couple of years for gods sake. That and the oil are why America pretends not to notice the absence of democracy or human rights.

          As for human rights - Kuwait is no democracy and has many human rights issues - do you americans no

          --

          @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
          print reverse @JAPH;
  • Pet Peeve (Score:3, Informative)

    Isra-el; "he will rule, as God". Not Isreal. Israel. Neither Betehl, Jeol, Sameul, Areil or Daneil, but Beth-el, Jo-el, Samu-el, Ari-el, Dani-el. Isra-el. It's not hard. Honest.
  • by ziggy (25) on 2003.02.14 10:12 (#17039) Journal
    I didn't really want to respond to this. But I can't stand to see these assertions sit unchallenged.

    First, s/isreal/israel/ig;. Please. It's a pet peeve of mine too.

    If our governments really wanted peace in the middle east and to remove the causes of terrorism we would be going to war with isreal instead of iraq.
    A statement like this shows you have absolutely no understanding of the last hundred years of history in the Middle East region. The problem isn't presence of a few Jews in the third holiest shrine in Islam. It isn't the unfair oppression of some arabs without a homeland. It's that there are western infidels making a home in the region. If it wasn't the "Zionists in Israel", someone else would be the great satan. If it wasn't the atrocities committed against the Palestinians, it would be the attrocities commited against someone else, somewhere else.
    Isreal has a long history of illegal military actions, massacres, genocide and its own apartheid system that makes 50's south africa look positively liberal.
    Oh, and bombing and gasing an already oppressed Kurdish minority is somehow morally justifiable? Have you ever met a Kurd?
    Its a kafka-esque nightmare where palestinians are detained without charge, or trial and with no evidence.
    If that's the basis of your rationale for bombing Israel, why doesn't someone just declare war on the greater part of South America, Africa, and Asia?

    The rights promised by the US Constitution are by no means universal. Canada does not have a right to free speech. Should the enlightened nations of the world embargo Canada's trade until they see the light?

    If this is a kafka-esque nightmare to you, then you must be living in some alternate reality where the US has annexed the entire world, and guaranteed a basic right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to every person on this planet. Protest all you want, but there is no reason why Israel, Iraq or Tahiti needs to provide a swift, speedy and fair trial by jury so the accused can face his accusers.

    • Yes there will always be some extremists but by removing the fuel from terrorism (which is oppression, poverty and desperation) it will be reduced to a more managable level and policable locally instead of with heavy handing rocket and missile attacks.

      There are plenty of extremists and terrorists around the world that are not linked to the middle east - the ETA of basque, the Loyalist and Republican Terror Groups in Ireland, Nazi's and Fascists in the US, UK and Europe as well as the terror groups involve

      --

      @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
      print reverse @JAPH;
      • My Point in case it wasn't immediately obvious is that there is less of a reason to bomb iraq than israel.

        Your point is neither obvious, nor clear, nor well thought out. It is certainly not justified nor is it well argued.

        The basis for bombing Isreal *before* Iraq is that it would bring peace sooner if that was what the UN really wanted.

        You provide no justification for this stance. You also fail to prove that bombing Israel would do anything to further the cause of world peace. If anything, it

        • Isreal has breached UN resolutions, deliberately killed and starved palestinians and hundreds of thousands of refugees in 30 years of ethnic cleansing. This is the same justification that NATO used to bomb Kosovo.

          The point is obvious - Iraq is just another dictatorship along with N Korea, Burma, China, etc. Isreal is a real danger to peace in the middle east and world wide.

          If we are going to bomb a country for being a despotic regime we should bomb china, Zimbabwe, Burma and many other equally appalling

          --

          @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
          print reverse @JAPH;
    • If this is a kafka-esque nightmare to you, then you must be living in some alternate reality where the US has annexed the entire world, and guaranteed a basic right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to every person on this planet.

      Hey, ziggy, you might want to try that line when the US stops detaining people without charge or trial and with no evidence...

      • Hey, ziggy, you might want to try that line when the US stops detaining people without charge or trial and with no evidence...

        Touche, but I still stand by my point. Moral outrage that some nation or locale does not uphold the US Constitution is not a reason to start lobbing bombs in their general direction. It's irrelevant whether that regime is the Israeli government, the Iraqi government, the Detroit Police department, the US government or the kingdom of Outer Foobaristan.

        War is serious business.