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JonathanWorthington (6049)

JonathanWorthington
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http://www.jnthn.net/
Friday February 15, 2008
09:37 AM

Perl 6 Hacking At GPW

[ #35664 ]

I've been at the German Perl Workshop for the last few days. While I was sat in a bunch of talks being presented in a language I don't understand, I had some free time to hack on Rakudo. That means there's been a few fixes and some new features.

First, I set about doing some re-factoring to the objects work I had done so far. It had wound up with a lot of inline PIR in actions.pm, and that in turn fixed us to one class system, which was fine for a first-cut implementation to get a few things working, but far from what S12 calls for. Now all the inline PIR I added is gone, replaced by calls to methods written in PIR.

With the refactoring done, it was then far easier to add what is needed to have methods in classes resolving conflicts and taking precedence during role composition. Of course, exactly how well the roles implementation matches S12 is yet to be seen, and that calls for lots of tests. I'll be drawing on the Moose ones for that.

With some basic OO support in and ready for people to play with, I moved on to looking at the regex support. There was already some there, but I've put in a bit more. $/ (the match variable) wasn't being passed into inner scopes, so if you did a pattern match in the condition of an if block then $/ would not be set inside the block. That is now fixed. Additionally, I implemented $0, $1, $2, etc numbered captures, as well as $ and $ named captures. There is also the "regex" keyword for introducing named regexes, so you can say stuff like:

regex Year {\d\d\d\d};
regex Location {German|French|Italian|London|Dutch|Ukrainian};
regex PerlConference {<Location>\sPerl\sWorkshop[\s<Year>]?};

I've got rule and token parsing, but they don't pass along the :ratchet and :sigspace modifiers yet. I hope to have that resolved soon.

A natural fall-out of adding support for $ is that %hash is now also supported for using constant hash keys. It's not much, but it's another small bit done.

It's been something of a mixed bag being at the GPW. While many people are interested and supportive of the work that is being done on Perl 6, others seem to prefer to use me as their latest target for snipey comments about how it will never be completed. And one person, after making a series of comments about code and papers he'd never read, decided to make an uncomplimentary comment about what I do with my wife in bed (by the way, I'm single). While I can put up with people being ignorant, I find personal attacks completely unacceptable, and not what I've experienced anywhere else in the Perl community. And now I'm left wondering whether I really want to spend any more of my time - which it costs me to take away from $DAYJOB - coming to GPW again.

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  • Jonathan, your story makes me very sad especially because I was once again so very happy to have you here at the workshop.

    Sexist attacks of any kind are unacceptable and must be outlawed and banned not only in the perl community.

    Thank you for being with us Jonathan. I'm sorry for what has happened and I hope that the offender will be available for an apology which is what is called for.
  • I'm really sorry to hear that, Jonathan!

    While I myself will continue to argue that Perl6 ist vaporware until it is actually released, I will kick people from the Workshop if they attack other people personally.

    I hope the guy will have the balls to publicly apologize to you without any wenn und aber or else I'll try to track him down and refuse to let him attend any further German Perl Workshops.

    --
    Cynic, n.: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. -- The Devil's Dictionary
    • While I myself will continue to argue that [Perl6] ist vaporware until it is actually released...

      Seriously? New Rakudo [rakudo.org] release next Wednesday, just like every month.

      • You keep saying that [perlmonks.org], but I guess what people mean by "Perl6" is not "Something that somebody decided to slap the label 'Perl6' on", or "Some executable named perl6", but something that lives up to the promises made by Damian and others, and the venture into Science Fiction, published by O'Reilly. I guess you will have to put up with telling people that Rakudo is Perl6 even after the release of Duke Nukem Forever.

        I'm still waiting for my flying car.

        • I'm still waiting for my flying car.

          You're no dummy. I know familiar with how community-driven software works. I can't understand where the feeling of entitlement comes from that drives you to complain continually that we haven't somehow magically pooled all of our volunteer time to produce everything what you want on precisely your schedule for exactly the budget you've given us to work with.

          On behalf of every volunteer (such as Allison, Jonathan, Patrick, Larry, Damian, Audrey, and Jerry) who's ac

          • You misunderstand me. I'm not complaining about that Perl6 is not here. The only thing I'm pointing at is your constant railing against such claims as:

            [Perl6] ist vaporware until it is actually released...

            You claim that

            Seriously? New Rakudo release next Wednesday, just like every month.

            as if that were any indication to that Perl6 were actually "done" in any way.

            The progress that has been made in the last few years is amazing, but Perl6 is in no way "done" or "ready". Rakudo has a long way to go to

            • Rakudo does in no way change the vaporware of [Perl 6]...

              The fact that multiple implementations exist and people can use them (hey, I wrote working Perl 6 code two and a half year ago) doesn't mean that the software actually exists outside of a hidden code repository that no one outside of the company can see or even outside the minds of the marketing department?

              If you downloaded and build Rakudo right now, you might see that it supports features natively that Perl 5 doesn't have.

              If you want to rede

              • I wrote working Perl6 code two years and 10 months ago myself [perl.org], thank you. But that does not mean that the then implementation of Perl6 included any features that differentiated Perl6 from Perl5.

                If you get all sorts of righteous indignation knotted up inside when the people actually doing the work to make all of these lovely features exist start saying "Hey, this part works now, and we release a new stable version every month in case you don't want to check out trunk continually," well, that's one sort of

                • You can have as many Rakudo releases as there are months in the year, but that doesn't mean anything in the progress of [Perl 6].

                  I only responded to quote that sentence. You, sir, left me speechless. Few people do.

    • I have to admit that my last sentence was unfair, because I still haven't learned from either side yet what really happened. I should have asked for both sides of the story first. So much for posting such tings without having a good night's sleep first.
      --
      Cynic, n.: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. -- The Devil's Dictionary
  • That’s all I can say. Wow.

    Well, the next workshop is in a year; and the one after that, in two years. I would hope that by that point, the tune of the naysayers would have to change from “it’s never gonna be done” to “that took longer than any other project” or however else they’re going to translate it to the past tense… n’est-çe pas? ;-)

  • Jonathan,

    please take our apologies from the organizers for such rude behaviour of one of our attendees.

    If we had knew that earlier, we had for sure immediately banished him from further attendance.

    Your talk and earlier ones too were such a pleasure for a lot of people that I would deeply regret not seeing you on our workshops again.

    If you give us some hints about the person, we will take actions against that person, at least to not allow him access to future workshops.

    If we don't find out who it was, be sur
    • It seems, my posting needs clarification. Please read my apology posting in a personal way, e.g., substitute "we" with "I", "our" with "my", "wsorga" with "a member of wsorga", etc.
  • as apparently the only other person here that actually witnessed the event, I think a few comments are in order:

    that person actually tried to make a compliment to jonathan because jonathan was quite agitated by the amount of perl6 criticism that was mentioned on the GPW. unfortunately, jonathan must have completely misunderstood that comment, and despite multiple attempts to calm him down (or to even find out what his problem was) and apologies by the person making the comment, he simply refused to talk abo
    • FWIW, this is actually close to what I'd guessed had happened when I heard about the story: that someone had made a joke, that that someone was German, and of course who understands German humor [wikipedia.org] besides Germans? (Relax, I'm only joking.)
    • jonathan actually reacted with such force and venom

      Erm, huh? When the guy left technical topics and instead decided to make a comment about how he could just imagine me in bed with my (non-existent) wife and so forth, I just walked away and went back into the talks.

      I find it really, really hard to see how the remark could be taken as a compliment given the negativity of the rest of the conversation. But anyway, I'd rather just put the whole thing behind me, and would rather everyone else does the same

  • i hear two versions of the story without any precise information of what was said.

    the sad thing is, that out of a personal attack a discussion about perl 6 and the german perl workshop community starts.
    i love the perl community, and i love the individualism. but i don't like if such discussions get personal. we're all grown up after all, so please resolve the misconception if possible and discuss any personal things privately.